Greetings and Salutations!
OK
First off, I’m waiting for my upper. It has/had an 8 week lead time to a 16 week lead time in a worst case scenario. I was willing to chance it, as… I dunno… as reader Jay Dee commented “investing in functional metals.” is a perfect description of what I did.
So I figured I’d break it down like Barney so y’all can see what I’ve gone with. I do have to say that this’s the most expensive build I’ve ever done hands down. I thought the $2200 for the National Match M21/M1A was pricey…
Whoo-wee! I knew not of what I was getting into.
Now… firstly, when I started this project, I knew it’d be spendy. Most good/great toys are. When I initially went to the Lima Six website, almost everything was sold out. Like nada-nichts-neinte. I signed up for the “Notify Me” when back in stock, and let it go. That was mid January.
Mid February, I got notification that a bunch of the cool kid stuff was back in stock. One of the things was a $99 buffer and tube kit. I bought it, as I figured this would mentally ‘lock me in’ as it was the correct tube and buffer weight for the Lima Six upper.
Sure, I could have probably gotten it cheaper piecemeal, but I wanted to know I had gotten the name-brand so to speak exact right tube, spring and buffer, even if it was slightly overpriced… It’s a ‘my mental thing’ so you’d have to be inside my head to ‘get it’. It meant I had committed building this fucker.
And Lo and Behold.
I managed to ‘choose wisely’ in the Silver Market, and liquidated at a price that made me happy, and also allowed me to buy the upper, completed, with the Inconel gas tube, which according to my intel, a high-strength, corrosion-resistant nickel-chromium superalloy which for a Belt Fed is a great choice I’m thinking. It raised the price to $3074.98. Call it with shipping $3100.00 roughly.
Then came the lower.
Now, this thing can clip onto ANY AR lower, which gives it it’s appeal. Turn any baseline AR into a belt-fed Squad Automatic Weapon… what’s not to love?
Well… my own research made me realize I didn’t like the distance the ammo bag/box would have using the standard adapter. The adapter:
gets inserted into the magwell, and then the ammo bag/box adapter clips onto the bottom of that:
Now, to me?
That’s quite a distance for the belt to travel. This (to me) is a bit far… lots of chances to snag the belt or allow shit to get in there as if one is ‘running and gunning as opposed to a situational dug-in defense…
That happened one time during a CALFEX where we were running through the woods, and when I ran through some particularly thick brush, the branches ‘grabbed’ my ammunition belt, pulling it out of the box… the belt didn’t snap but a bunch of the rounds got all fucked up, and I had to re-align them to make sure I didn’t have a jam, as well as re-stuff them into the box.
That took time to fix.
Plus, the adapter is 3-D printed.
I’m all for 3-D printing, but I know that the PLA does have long term issues with use, UV breakdown and the like. Granted that Lima uses SLS Nylon, I’m still very wary.
So… because of this, I started researching.
And found a Lower specifically designed for Belt Fed ARs
Link to it is HERE
Yeah
A bit pricey… but hey, If you’re going to go Retard with Weapons, You Always Go Full Retard.
Now… this was originally made for the FlightLite MCR series of belt-fed uppers. Thing is, the MCR STARTING PRICE is a grand more, with the higher end models starting at $7000.00!!! Like Holy FUCK!!!
Considering a military contract FN SAW costs only $4100?
Yeeeeeah… porking the consumer IMO.
ESPECIALLY that the reviews on the MCRs in general are VERY metsoo-metz. Lots of complaints about tuning it, lots of complaints that the belt has to be practically soaked in CLP…
Yeah… to an old SAW Gunner like myself?
Hard Pass
Even if I had “Fuck You” Money.
So…
I got the Black Widow lower, as well as an adapter specifically designed to move the ammo box/bag to it’s ‘proper feeding’ location. Seems the MCR (which the BFAR was designed for) has a different feed distance and angle. That adapter moves the ammo forward about 1/2 an inch, which allows the Lima Six to feed without having a minor ‘twist’ in the belt:
When installed, well… it works beuatifully.
And so here’s the Reveal:
I went with a Tapco SAW Grip. Tapco got bought out back in 2021, and most of their ‘stuff’ is now just a memory. This one is the real deal that I found from a guy on Reddit. Link is HERE.
He apparently has black AND tan CAGE stamped genuine SAW grips, as you can see on mine. The SAW grip is a chonky-boi compared to other grips, which allows big pawed dudes like me to rock on a SAW or equivalent. Love me that grip IMO.
The Adapter for the nutsack, when installed looks like this:
It slides in, and locks in with a set-screw, which I squirted with some Locktite 222 as I don’t want it coming loose. The trigger assembly is a standard AR until I can figure out the FRT side of things, as the legality here in Florida is retarded. I’m also waiting on the bolt catch/release as you need one that will fit, as the upper sticks out over the edge of the lower, so a standard paddle release gets in the way and needs to be either cut, or in this case, a proper flatter longer turned release is installed.
Without the nutsack attached (that BTW is a 200 round DotMil Issued bag, $150.00 retail) looks like this:
The rear stock is the highly adjustable Magpul LRS.
Adjustable comb, as well as length and even the recoil pad is adjustable. My only complaint about it is that it doesn’t come with instructions, so I had to youtube the vidya to get the intel for installation and function. $99.00 on ar15discounts dot com.
Add on the 1500 in M27 links, the ammo and whatnot ‘stuff’ like a good bipod (which is an absolute necessity) that’ll eventually get added, it’ll break the $4500 level in the end.
Which I’m comfortable with.
So that’s my night.
Hope everyone else is cool.
More Later
Big Country
sweet.
Holy cow! Very nice.
100% badass. I like it.
let’s see…. Flamethrower check
Body armor check
Now a “machine gun” (Minecraft) check
All you need now is a welders mask and you can be Lethal Weapon 4 Florida man. Cool have fun and stay out of the news.
You GOTTA do a range report on that one Tiny!!! What optic is going to go on this beast? And the ammo box: so it slides into place on that big dove tail on the lower? Is there a detent or something to retain it?
Also – years ago I think they used to have those double drum mags – what were they called? Beta Mags? I can’t remember anymore… didn’t they hold 100 rounds? To me they looked like Jam-O-Matics, but whadda I know?
I can’t wait to see this monster run! And yes – go with Inconel whenever you can. It’s generally your best bet for high temp applications and many chemically abrasive situations. Don’t cheap out on a gun you may have to stake your life on!!!
😊👍
Ditto on the range report. The good, the bad, the ugly!
check out Atlas bipods. I bit the price a few years back and never looked again. but it is very solid
and well worth the bucks. granted I only have tow of them. but both have held up very well so far.
much better than my old a s dirt Harris one has.
Looks sweet BCE and years ago I would have said “that’s cool but do you REALLY need a weapon like that as part of your preps” ?
I wouldn’t say that now. With the government and economy going to shit it is a matter of WHEN not IF when the day comes that the government checks and “gimmies” end.
When that day comes there will be riots never seen before and the police will quickly be overwhelmed.
There will be bands of looters hitting the suburbs and you and your neighbors BETTER be prepared or at best you will be like Reginald Denny.
On that day this weapon will be a godsend for you and you could take a mob out almost by yourself.
There will be no looting or burning down of BCE’s house. 😀
A few Molotovs say different. You can’t shoot ’em all. Even if you did, you’d then have a yard full of rotting corpses. Not healthy. BTW, the mob will have guns as well. But go ahead with your suburban warfare fantasy. They’ll sweep thru the burbs like locusts.
They will or a fire will or a hurricane will come along and flatten or flood everything…Then and only then will people realize they should of spent their time and effort into getting a farm in the country where they controlled their water, food, and had a defensible area around their house…
Good stuff, sounds like a nice set up, was hoping to read it was a bit cheaper but it is what it is. Curious to read what you come up with wrt frt solutions, I tried one of those Wide Open Triggers in the past, lotta fun for awhile but removed it to do a different build that seems to have grown into a couple of piles of parts since I moved..
Some folk’s itches cost more to scratch, that’s for sure. Love the 1:5 belts you put together. When I got my SAW, they were all brand new. My serial # was 0004xx. It was a jam-o-matic. Probably because we never got the linked SS109 to shoot out of them and had to use 30 rd mags of M193. So, SAW gunners were kind of a joke for a while. Mine got bent around a tree at Baumholder (training accident, don’t you know?) and I was reissued an M60 – a brand new Maremont which I carried until I ETSd.
I scratched my M16A1 itch with a Southern Tactical clone build using Colt parts with a new, Green Mountain 1:9 barrel and an Anderson USG property marked receiver. I thought it would have been funny if they left the “poverty pony” stamp on it above the USG property stamp. Once I cleaned all the red paint off the stock, I liked it much better. Used a razor blade instead of chemicals, on the recommendation of the gunsmith at the transfer dealer. Worked great.
Took it out and zero’d/function check it out on BLM land near me. Works great. Zero’d in two groups using a US Army M16A2 25m target. Wasn’t easy, as I was set up on a slope facing downhill, so the neck strain sucked. The ants were bad, too – seems I dropped my brand new shooting mat down on their hill and pissed them off. I’m surprised I kept as tight of groups as I did.
Got a 25m M16A1 Army qualification target from the Zon and then found the directions and scorecards online to print out. I’ll give that a go and see if I still have the Expert Mojo.
I want to get a couple hundred more rounds through it before I take it out to a Steel Challenge type match. Can’t wait to run it up against the guys with their Gucci rigs. I’ll show up in my 80’s LBE and have fun cosplaying.
Whoa – kick ass. That is significant money. But I daresay you are the only one on your block that has it 😀
https://www.cryostructure.com/product/cryostructure-ar-10-7-62mm-belt-fed-upper-receiver/
Loved my SAW, haters gonna hate. That thing looks awesome. Purpose built lower FTW, too much slop otherwise.
BINGO! I weighed the pros and cons, and said Fuck it.
I will say it’s going to be a stout bastard when I’m done… without the upper or ammo bag, it’s tipping in at 3.2 pounds right now.
Not a lot, but the upper will add 9 pounds, the bipod .88lbs, and the sight I’m eyeballing, the Trijicon M249 ACOG adds 2.25lbs.
Fiddley Bits add a 1/4lb.
So that’ll will make it, w/out ammo, 15.3 pounds all together.
The IRL M249 is 17.2 unloaded.
Add a 200 round bag, (7.8 pounds) and it still is 3 pounds lighter than the SAW w/the SAW NOT having an optic…
All together? 23.1 Pounds. A wee bit of a chonky-boi but hey? What the fuck not?
Chonky but looks to be the absolute best way to use that upper. Poor man’s saw in all but easily swapped barrels.
Appreciate you doing the walk through on the build. I’ve got a motorcycle I never ride that might turn into a clone of yours. Along with a shitload of links and such that found their way home..
nice rig, but i can see why you dont ever have 2 nickles to rub together.
I was broke as a joke when I had to pay for -her- pedicures, nails, makeup, hair extensions, and all the other crap that goes into supporting a female.
Now? Imma doing juuuuust fine thankee very mucho.
Besides… I don’t mind going into “Ramen Mode” if I get to “feed my addiction” LOL!
Ramen is easy to doctor — scallions, julienne carrots, mushrooms, beef, bean sprouts — overall a very nourishing soup. I even added chopped celery.
Of course, everyone will be down on it – say it’s not good for you.
My wife rolls her eyes when I grab the Ramen six-pack at the grocery store.
my girlfriend does amazing things with ramen, the end result is hardly recognizable as ramen. By itself it’s boring as hell, but if you jazz it just right it’s amazing.
Man, there is some great ramen on the shelf in the stores, now. Not like when everything was Top Ramen and you had to doctor the stuff.
I got some not too long ago that came with a pouch of sauce and a pouch of kimchee. Plus, it was hot enough to make my eyes water. Good stuff!
Awesome!…
Folks who want to train with a similar set up can come to One Shepherd Leadership Institute this fall.
We will be running a full two day weapons course prior to the 3 day FTX on Crew served weapons one of which is our belt-fed FRT MFR 56 from System Defense. These are the only belt-fed AR style guns to ever be deployed by militaries. They run like raped apes and have interchangeable barrels.
Cant wait to get my chance to run one in a few weeks.
We liked the Lima Six as there has been a lot of positive feedback on them, but we wanted the interchangeable barrel which they do not offer at this time. As you said the MCR’s are way overpriced for what you are getting.