Greetings and Salutations!
So besides all the other international crap going on all day, all night 24-7 because “Israel”!!! and “Iran”!!! it seems that the OrangeManBad Bill AKA “The Big Bootiful Bill” got tweaked by the Senate Finance Committee to fully repeal the NFA on some ‘stuff’…
Said update came via Gun Owners of America via this tweet:
Cool that they seem to be finally getting past the whole argument about hushpuppies and sbrs. I fully expected that the addition on the short barreled shotties would get on there no problem, as the laws regarding those ‘types’ of toys have slacked off ever since a guy I know, “RA Bear”, managed to come up with and slip under the ATF radar, what’s now known as the Mossberg “Shockwave”
My buddy “Bear” essentially and without going too deep into it, kept going back to the ATF asking “Hey, if I do this is this cool?” to which the ATF in all it’s genius went “Yeah, sure, why not?”.
He did this so many times that by the time he got done, that eventually and ‘all of a sudden’ a pistol-gripped 14.3in barreled shotty with an overall length of 26.8 inches (much to the horror of the slow-on-the-uptake ATF tards) was now legal across the board.
Now granted, I’m oversimplifying the whole thing like a mother, but you catch my drift. Those bad boys, and MANY others are now ‘common use’ so that particular barn door wasn’t getting closed anytime soon.
For that matter, ALL of them fun-time toys listed are now going to be legal. The only requirement is that IF you buy one, you have to fill out a standard 4473 like you do when you purchase any other rifle/pistol.
Which leads me to the crux of my legal question.
Now we’ve seen, and found out over the past few years that the ATF went after 80% firearms HARD. In fact that’s an understatement. They’ve ALSO have gone after home-made 3D printed weapons as well. LOTS of court cases, most of which ended up being found in the “Favor of Freedom” so to speak…
HOWEVER, due to the LONG HISTORY of “Guns in America” and the damned near sacrosanct ability for common ‘Muricans! to make their own guns at home, without interference and the like from overzealous DotGov Minions and Karens, my question is this:
If it’s legal to “homebrew” so to speak in the vernacular, a home-made 3D Printed or complete an 80% handgun and or rifle, WITHOUT DOTGOV PERMISSION OR PAPERWORK then, by extent, wouldn’t the same exact legality apply to “homebrewed” hushpuppies and all the rest of the happy-time fun toys???
It’s an interesting concept.
I, for one, am NOT willing to be the ‘test case’ in regards to this. I’ve had enough “Imperial Entanglements” over the past few years, so pardon the pun, but I’m gun-shy LOL. That being said however, to my mind and critical thinking, that by repealing any and all tax stamps and/or registration of and for suppressors/short barrel rifles/short barreled shotguns/and AOWs that then there is no stopping someone from building their own right?
I mean an SBR?
Hell… I owned (until the Tragic Canoe Accident of 2022) what are currently considered “AR Pistols”… I had ‘braces’ on them. However, IF I were to ‘replace the brace’ on them with a M-4 standard Folding stock, it then becomes a “Homebrewed” (so to speak) SBR. If one were to buy a 10.75 inch “Colt Commando” barreled upper and slap it on your pseudo-M-4 lower? BOOM! SBR. Oh so many examples!
Buy a $125 dollar H&R “Granny Clampett” side-by-side 12 gauge and saw it down? Short Barreled Sawed Off Shotgun. And as an aside BTW: Not that I’d EVER recommend ever doing THAT… I had a fren in the 1st Cav who did exactly that… he sawed a 12 Gauge Double Barrel side-by-side down to maybe 12 inches? And then he sawed the buttstock down and practically off… he wanted to make and try a “Mad Max” 12ga. Pistol… let me tell you… LOUD AF and utterly useless unless the person you’re aiming at is within 10 feet. The spread of pellets was retardedly wide… plus the recoil was brutal. Anywho…
My line of reasoning I –think- is solid.
And no, I have NOT seen anyone openly positing this theory.
By the elimination of these items from the National Firearms Act, and now considering them as “firearms” ONLY and having them classed as such that you ONLY need to file a 4473 to buy one, wouldn’t it follow that if you make your own, then there’s no need for any paperwork?
JUST like an 80% home built pistol/rifle or 3D printed?
Like I said, a question for the Legal Eagles out there.
I mean the $200 tax stamp, when initially put in place in I believe 1934, that was the equivalent of $4,797.99 in todays money. Consider this: The average national salary in 1934 was $1,368!!!! SO a $200 tax stamp was not just prohibitive, it was an OUTRAGEOUS amount at the time!!! 14% of your YEARLY SALARY! So, of course, that only allowed the extraordinarily wealthy and/or criminal class (which in truth are pretty much the same fucking thing) could afford such nice things.
In fact, IF this is the case, we might actually see the price of a hushpuppy FINALLY drop to a reasonable price, as demand will go through the roof, as will production. This means a boon to the folks who can ramp up production for a quality suppressor without totally porking the consumer, as I find a LOT of the companies out here using the existing NFA artificial bottleneck as a means to keep the price point elevated to the stratosphere.
Palmetto State will be LIT over this, you watch.
And ‘homebrewing’?
Oh… that’ll be the new hawtness. I guarantee it.
LOTS of 3D print files for baffles out there and with the newer metal sintering 3D printers? Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeah….
Go figure.
So your thoughts on this interesting conundrum?
More Later
Big Country
“I mean the $200 tax stamp, when initially put in place in I believe 1934, that was the equivalent of $4,797.99 in todays money. Consider this: The average national salary in 1934 was $1,368!!!! SO a $200 tax stamp was not just prohibitive, it was an OUTRAGEOUS amount at over four times the money that the ‘average gun owner’ made in a YEAR! ”
Let’s see…carry the one…
yeah your maff is off.
Yeah. It was 200/1368, so about 15% of the mean (average) annual salary. Either use all 1934 dollars or all current-day dollars. You done mixed and matched.
Yeash I fixed it… I wuz in da Infantry… Maffs no so gud for Mongo
Yeah, I fixed it
There’s a lot of things a firearms aficionado can do…if you have the cash and mental fortitude to duke it out with BATFEces in Federal Court. Most people don’t and can’t. This is a reality that all Fed agencies count on.
Don’t care about the math. It was wrong then but is corrected now. I got a 22 that needs a can so I have a better cat eradicator. Not that I dislike cats, the wife likes birds, and so do cats. Go figure. Anyway a 22 with sub Sonic’s and a can will be. Better than an air rifle. If I can get a can easy, I will be a happy camper.
Exactly. That’s the point of tonight’s discussion. What do YOU think?
There’s no reason suppressors should be counted as firearms but your train of thought there makes sense to me
My mind immediately went to home built cans when I heard that the Hearing Protection Act made it through the House. Seems to me that absent the NFA home built cans should be a no brainer. Remember a few years ago when fuel filters were all the rage, and the BATF came down on people selling and/or buying same for having a non-registered suppressor? Well, if it no longer takes a Form 1 to make a can, well then, it stands to reason that home built suppressors should be a thing.
And then there are the adapters that can thread onto a firearm that you can screw an oil filter onto, and make a suppressor out of.
Given the “Barbie for adults” nature of the AR-15, absent SBR registration requirements it becomes as easy as swapping out a barrel to make a 10.5″ MK18 clone out of any AR.
Thanks for the input! Great points! Forgot about the filter issue… some folks got SERIOUSLY hemmed up over that!
very few people have the bucks to fight the feds in court. and the feds know and count on it too.
just look at the railroading of General Flynn, they tried to break him in court and when they couldn’t
they went after his kid. like most people I try very hard to stay off their radar.
but with them fuckers you never know.
homemade cans are easy to do really. anyone with a metal lathe can made one.
there was a very good write up on the subject done a few years back. but if you really want quiet,
you need subsonic ammo to go with the can. like 45 Cot or 44 mag downloaded .
closed breech weapons seem to work best. bolt, lever action, whatever.
the other problem is heat, besides the pressure that you will have to deal with.
say, drill a few holes in the barrel and have the can cover the whole of the barrel. no baffle strikes
and plenty of room for the gas/pressure to go . just saying, of course.
A whole lot of people just no longer care about gay federal laws.
The likelihood of getting caught using SBRs and suppressors in public is pretty small, especially given how common they are. Plus, you can always toss a brace on instead of a stock, and cans are removable…
First suppressor was a Form 1 can. $200 for the stamp, $50 for the engraving, $17 for the kit off of Amazon.
Make sure you have your Cogsdill small hole deburring tool handy if you are gonna start perforating the barrel. Just saying of course.
Now if all you…… bah figure out how to make that old colt 45 revolver quieter with flying ashtray bullets then I will be reallllly interested! Seriously though it seems to me that for those newbs, just learning, kids etc the hearing protection alone is worth it. To me the question is now what are states going to do? The $$ involved could be staggering. Just a thought.
Correct me if I am incorrect; I remember SCOTUS recently declaring suppressors/silencers are NOT firearms, and,therefore, are not protected by the 2nd Amendment. They are accessories.
This is, then, the same as a sling, scope, magazine, (bump) stock, or other accessory. Accessories, most parts, and even “black powder” items are not regulated.
Regarding improvised hushpuppies, the only thing preventing prevalence is the threat of sanction. Moving them to the same purchase status as a firearm makes it virtually impossible to justify sanctioning the use of an improvised unit.
Irish Repeal; an unenforceable law is no longer a law, it is a historical note.
You’ll need every weapon for the YUGE really BIG show and $10 a gallon will slow down the happy motoring putt putt season as Miriam Adelson Governs America.
Will the Nimitz going to Davy Jones’ locker have the recruiting offices overflowing?
Eighteen inches is the barrel length limit for shotgun in Red State or it was.
There is no riot buster like shotgun!
The devil will be in the details. Look at what is in the final bill put forward to be signed. I would not be surprised to see that though excise taxes are waved, registration requirements under the NFA stay on the books.
The original hearing protection act removed suppressors from NFA and would have regulated them under the Gun Control Act of 68 “GCA” (form 4473 over the counter transfer). If that does happen, then yes, home built suppressors will be like home built firearms. Perfectly legal.
Your analysis is correct as to homebrewing. You need to watch iut for state law though which may also regulate such items. Additionally, braces are still useful for truck guns because some states allow loaded “pistols” in vehicles while prohibiting loaded “rifles” — stupid, but so are 99.9% of all gun laws.
The final language of the BBB will matter as well. Remove the tax does not remove the registration and transport restrictions of the NFA, so hopefully the language takes them out of the NFA entirely.
PA. is like that too. if you have a CCW, you can have a AR pistol with brace in your car/truck loaded.
but not a long gun ???
anyway, I have a 10.5 inch pistol braced AR I put in the truck when going to town. along with a get home bag with 6 magazines in it. handy little item. loud though. put a Witt sound devise on the end of it
and it helps a lot with the blast/sound
At this point in time, while the tax on SBRs and suppressors may get eliminated, the NFA still regulates their manufacture and possession. Until SBRs and suppressors are removed from the NFA, you can’t make one at home without the prior blessing of the ATF.
The NFA is a legal minefield waiting to ensnare anyone who doesn’t scrupulously adhere to its rules.
The illusion of freedom in this nation is a joke with 20 million laws on the books, all created to make you a unknowing felon 10x over. They remove the tax (illegal) on firearms and we still have the registration (illegal) to make sure people can still end up in jail.
As Boston T. Party said so well, we are slaves with weekends off.
I’m afraid the can/gun type tax is a sacrificial lamb added to the bill to be easily removed from the final bill as a show of “bipartisanship”. The guy from the local shop I frequent week was of the same opinion last week.
Many manufacturers have been offering “free tax stamp” as part of their marketing pitch, but that’s just like squeezing a cost balloon. 😉