Greetings and Salutations!
So I took a LOT of y’alls advice regarding the Enfield Stocks. Took a few hours and a bunch of ‘things’ happened in the meantime. I ended up in the E.R. as that pinched nerve in my neck went into ‘crippling pain’ and I couldn’t move.
Like literally.
It’s part of the damage from my original injury that ended my DotMil career. Cervical 5-6-7 took a 10k vertical axial load dump when the main barrel of the tank got dropped on me. The brachial nerves took a squish, and I’ve had all the treatment I can pretty much for over 25+ years. Occasionally things get bad, but yesterday was the worst on an order of “hasn’t been this ouchie since the original injury”
They squared me away at the VA however. Bunch of shots/meds and I’m operational again. Higher than normal, but operational. I can at least turn my head, and chew again (plus side) as well as lift my arms above my waist and can type, which was not an option after 2pm yesterday. I got home and crashed, and then well, I’ve got a slew of new appointments to check just what went wrong, as this was far beyond the ‘normal’ flare up or slippage of discage I’ve had in the past. I’ll keep you up to date as we go.
As far as the rifle stocks? Well… this’s the ‘after’ of a LOT of steam, and a couple go-rounds in the dishwasher:
The rear stock is a WORLD of different is color now, with the original being this:
The dents are, for the most part out (the minor ones) but as you can see, it still looks like the poor thing was chained to the bumper of a pickup, and dragged down a gravel road. Now I -could- as one of you suggested, sand the ever-lovin’ shit out of it and try that. Thing is, is just how much sanding is it going to take to get that looking better?
Too much IMO.
And as far as ‘the personality of the weapon’?
This thing at this point isn’t so much a restoration as it is a ‘rescue’ as I don’t think many would be willing to go this far on such a trashed out set of stocks. Granted they’re the original and theoretically ‘serviceable’ but man, they’re ‘beat-on ugly-ugly’.
When do I call it and do a full on replacement?
Tough call.
Let me know your thoughts, as I have given it “Ye Olde College Try” and well, sometimes you have to just say “It’s dead Jim!” The last attempt I’m going to do now I think is re-staining with some dark stain, and a matte finish with some poly to seal it, and if it comes out ok, well then great. If not? Well it’s not like these are hard to find right?
Next on the list:
The Springfield Trapdoor.
ReadiFreddi the OtherGran, had given it to me to see what I could do with it. So I had put a stupidly low bid offer on eBay for the Lock Assembly that I never expected the guy to accept. He wanted like $200 for it alone. Including S&H I got it for a little over $150 and it’s in exceptionally good condition with as advertised 90% or better of the original brownish finish, with full functionality.
It fits beautifully in it as well:
The ‘US Springfield’ stamp with Eagle is quite prominent still, and it needs a lil scrubbing I think just to clean it up -very lightly- and it’ll be fine. It fit, as stated before, perfectly no wiggle room, and it only took very light thumb pressure to put it in place. The hammer also meets up right where it should on the trapdoor.
Maaaaaaaan
It IS like having a Crack/Heroin/Meth Addiction.
I can’t wait for the next pieces parts to show up to clean up and affix to the greater part of the rifle and give me my next ‘fix’. I think the next part coming in is the butt plate w/door and screws. That looks like it’s going to need a lot of scrubbing, as the pics show a lot of rust. I’ll further evaluate as needed. Then the only remaining parts are the trigger assembly (trigger and guard) w/screws, the Lock Screw Set, primary main screw, and the top rear primary sight w/screws.
That rear sight is a ‘wait and watch’ however.
The least expensive one out there starts at like $130 and goes up from there (for a serviceable one… rusty junk is available, but I want one that’s out of the box ready to play if you will). The other reason is there are SO many different models that this thing could and did have…
Add on that every single screw seems to NOT come with the part it’s intended to, but the majority of sellers are selling the screws as sets, but for what I consider extortionist prices… $30 for the Lock Screws… $15 a throw plus shipping. Unfortunately, these are the only players that are at least NOT gouging the hell out of people…
Older rarer collectible gun parts are MUY EXPENSIVO!
Hence why I compare this hobby to a crack addiction.
Thing of it is? If I get the Springfield up and running? The rounds to it are like $5 a throw. Only Buffalo Bore sells them…
$86.00 per box, plus S&H.
This’s going to be a ‘one off’ test, and if I find that it’s cool to shoot, maybe another box, and then I’ll do the reloading on it, as they have on the website the reduced loads that it needs to be properly done. Hell, have a ‘Pancho Villa’ Leather Boolit Cross Chest holder done by the guy I go to for leather holsters and ‘stuff’ on Etsy LOL
I mean let’s face it… adding a fucking Moose Killing Rifle that shoots a 500 grain cannonball does have it’s sexy appeal.
Sure… a bit on the slow side, but would YOU want to be getting clobbered by one of those things ? While wearing a vest? With Level III plates? I envision a guy getting hit by one of these in the chest the same as someone dropping a bowling ball on a PB&J sammich.
All the squishy goodness squirts out the edges.
Because fuck you, fuck your plates, and fuck the guy behind you and HIS plates as well. Plus how cool is it to be The Guy Who Uses a 134/141 year old Rifle as a Home Defense Rifle? I’m really looking forward to getting BOTH rifles up and running in a short period of time.
So More Later
Big Country
Re: Stock Restorations.
Hardened blade to scrape the stock, and a hot iron with wet pad to raise the dents.
Linseed or Linspeed oil will replicate the original finish…
+1 on the linseed oil. I would not polyurethane it. My match grade Garand is sealed with polyurethane and does not resemble a service weapon.
I concur, but would also give it a light sanding after scraping then linseed oil.
re: 45-70 impact. back in the late 20th century a deputy up in Idaho (I believe) got center chest punched into his vest with what I believe was a factory 405 grain soft nose. DRT.
Round did not penetrate the vest but the backside cavity squished his heart.
You are right. Not a good thing to have happen.
Remington sells 45/70 government ammo for your rifle. It is loaded for springfield and older weapons. It is standard yellow green box and I bought mine at Bass Pro.
I got some .45-70 405 yr Cavalry rounds from some modern company. $50/box. Have to check the brand when I get home tomorrow night.
Second, Remington sells low pressure 45-70. Also on the neck, I had the ligament get sucked into the area where the disc should be from slippage. It was nightmarish they only found it when they went in for the fusion.
yeah, check out ammoseek for 45-70 with a search of ‘trap’ – $1.42-$2.10
yeah, Buffalo Bore ammo is on the high end.
Oldguns.net
Shoot them an email and see what they might have for parts for that 45-70’
https://thebiggamehuntingblog.com/what-is-the-taylor-ko-factor/
I’ve got 2 rifles in 45-70. The Marlin is the Cowboy special version with a much longer barrel and an 8 round magazine tube. Far better rifle than I am a shooter. Speaking from personal experience, it will put a bear down with authority. Very forgiving of different brands/bullet weights/velocities. Algonquin I used to hunt with up in northern Quebec loved his for moose, and liked it even better after I gave him a couple of boxes of Buffalo Bore 405s – the ones too much for the Trapdoor.
Read somewhere that some of the original tests of the 45-70 vs the 450 Martini-Henry included shooting at a target at one mile. Supposedly the 45-70 penetrated a foot of solid oak at that range.
Looking forward to seeing what it can do at the range…
“Level4 steel front and back plates are all fine and dandy until the 45-70 claps them together and makes them ring”.
7.62 NATO delivers more energy than .45-70.
It was was a two mile test. You can read about it here:
-> https://usarmorment.com/pdf/4570a.pdf
Matt
Bought my Trapdoor rifle from the George R. Repair gun shop in San Leandro, CA in 1073. Been casting and loading for it ever since. Started with IMR 4198 powder and have used that ever since as well. Rifle will hold 2 MOA with my loads. I have scanned pages from loading manuals back then with safe smokeless loads. If you like, I can send them by email. Also have a PDF copy of the article “45-70 at Two Miles” written by John Farquharson about the long range tests at Sandy Hook in 1879. Shoot me an email if you’re interested.
Got my first Trapdoor carbine in 1975, started my reloading career with a Lee Loader, IMR4198 and Remington 405 bullets. Owned 3 Trapdoors and several new Marlins, I’ve handloaded the 45-70 to it’s max loading in the Marlins, equal to my .458 American.
Many decades ago a friend had an original handgun that had been built on a Remington Rolling Block in 45-70, was nice shooter with the BP loads.
There used to be a re-print available of the original US military manual for the US Rifle and Carbine Model 1873 or 1884. Wasn’t expensive at all, like $5 in the 1980’s. Very good accessory to have if you own the rifle.
I need to come out and we can shoot our trapdoors together.
45-70 at two miles… Sandy Hook tests of 1879.
https://usarmorment.com/pdf/4570a.pdf
Good find. However, the article at this link is missing all the illustrations and diagrams showing trajectory and penetration.
45-70… God’s Own Cartridge.
Which is why my Step-Bro-Out-law took a Thompson-Center base and created a 45-70 hand-gun. He has LARGE wrists. AND is JUST this side of fully certifiable, which is why his stepsister and I have gotten along for 50 years.
He also has a 45-90 floating around somewhere.
Night Driver
PS on the stocks, they are BEAUTIFUL right now. They are a well-seasoned grunt able to tell War Stories with no question of authenticity.
“Brownish” finish is rust, the original Trapdoor finish should be blued.
Too many people are under the illusion old muzzleloaders had a brown finish, because that’s what everyone was doing in the 1960-70’s to their new Dixie, Navy Arms and Thompson-Center Hawkens, I did it too. However, research shows the majority of those old firearms started out with a blue finish, (fire bluing or rust blued) and then turned brown from slow rust over 100+ yrs of neglect.
Stock refinishing is something that an apprentice gunmaker would learn early on, while the gunmaker was busy building new rifles. Cabinet scrapers were commonly used for scraping the surface down, but you can also get a chatter effect like a washboard road from the wood grain. Might help to have a professional (cabinet) woodworker show you the ropes. YT has a lot of stock finishing videos but most of those guys are doing their first stock and showing off how well the Tru-Oil worked. Maybe someone has a good video on .mil wood stocks.
So sorry to hear about yer neck/back. That certainly isn’t “just” a flair up. I fractured cervicals 3 through 7 or 8, back in ’95, tree-25ft-inertial impact. Had scaffolding for 11 months, it sucked out loud, still does, the VA gives me 120 Vicodin a month.
The Enfield needs to keep its original stock, it’s paid its dues, keep the history. 45-70 lookin good.
Second that. Spiff up the Enfield with the appropriate Brittish finish — whatever that is — but let her keep the scars, as long as it’s shootable.
Had my c-5, 6, 7 and T-1 fused years ago. Saved my arms. Have never regretted it. only pain now is from Arthritis.
Steinel makes a number of loads, here’s one example…
https://steinelammo.com/all-available-calibers/rifle-ammo/45-70-govt/45-70-government-500gr-rn-trapdoor-load/
Discovered them looking for 458 SOCOM…
The tinkering is half the fun
Boil the rusty parts in water for a couple of hours, converts the rust to a oxide and then it will rub off with a dish scrubby
You need to use a 500 grain round nose
The Lyman 457125 will get you out to 1000 yds. with black powder.
Old info is good.
https://usarmorment.com/pdf/4570a.pdf
Cowboy Action Shooting loads are available from several manufacturers, and are loaded down to trap door levels.
I seem to recall seeing some factory black powder cartridges, but I may be mistaken.
PS – I grow weary of pecking out Trailer For Sale Or Rent everytime I want to add my 2 cents, but this iPad won’t save the fields.
These are a bit cheaper if you’re looking for lead round nose projectiles.
-> https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-70-gov-t-405-rnfp-amou45701.html
The standard Remington ammo will be safe in it as well.
Matt
Looking good, Tiny…not that we expected to not look good! You.da.man!