Greetings and Belated Salutations!
So, it’s been a few days but OMG, I’ve been MAD busy. I’ve been dealing with the in-laws and that shitshow, the ‘regular’ daily shitshow’ and the Glorious Tractor Factory Shitshow.
I’m tired
Worn the Hell out.
So hence, the past few days I just could not bring myself to Blegg. Add on that I’m exhausted. I’ve had some recent sleep issues, and as an attempt to alleviate that, I started trying, mind you trying, some Tylenol PM.
Which was a major no go.
That shit started some serious nightmare fuel level PTSD flashbacks while dreaming that I haven’t had in like 10 plus years. I have no idea what part of it did it, or what it combined with in the stew of chemistry that I already have in my carcass on the regular, but two nights of taking it, times two nights of waking up freaking out/yelling/reaching for a weapon on the night stand when there’s nothing there? While still fully asleep?
Yeah.
Hard pass.
Add on the ‘stolen valor expose’ I was working on (and may yet do?) I was told by a source to stand down as part of what I personally had figured out is/was/is going to be part of a LARGER IRL case, and anything I may or may not have put out against the General Formerly In Charge might have given an ‘edge’ on his potential defense.
And yeah, I figured out General Milley is beyond dirty.
I have to leave it at that.
On advice of some folks faaar higher on the ‘active’ food chain who’re looking to ‘eat his ass for lunch’ both metaphorically and even possibly in reality. It’s still ongoing… It seems that occasionally even a blind intel-squirrel such as myself stumbles on an ‘active nut’ so to speak…
Oops…
So, instead, I’m going to entertain you with the newest toy slated for a restoration:
The Lee Enfield Model 1, Mark 4.
This was the successor and next model AFTER the SMLE, the Short Magazine, Lee Enfield Model 1, Mark 3 that was the predominant weapon in World War One, and well into World War Two. The rationale for the development of the Mark 4 was financial and the simplification of the manufacturing of the Lee Enfield overall. Mark 3’s were $$$ comparatively speaking… Like $5 BritPounds more, but when you’re talking about millions of rifles, you’re talking real monies.
Initially introduced in the early 1930’s, it (the Mark 4) wasn’t put into full production until 1942. Now… per the Wiki Chart, here’s the basic timeline for the production:
Now the * (star) on that chart actually indicates a * on the Rifle Stamp itself. It means that that particular rifle was an ‘improved’ version of the Mark rifle that it was stamped on.
The SMLE I have is marked a 1939 (pre-war) has “B.S.A.Co.” which stands for Birmingham Small Arms Company, and then “Sht. L.E III *” on the ‘wrist’ of the rifle as well as the year of manufacture:
The “G.R.” stands for Georgius Rex, or King George the 5th, the king of the time.
Now, guess what arrived today after being ordered back in Mid-December? Well… let me show you, in detail:
It’s dirty
It’s (currently ugly) BUT
I hope y’all are ready to see this a lot, as now, I have a Lee Enfield Mod 1, Mark 4 ready for restoration. And let me tell you, I need some input from you all deplorables.
Before I get too deep, let me show you what we have, from the rear to the front and back again in pics, so you can see what I’m dealing with, and what I have to work with. Picture #1:
The wood so far, outside of some dings, seems like it’s in good shape. More on that on the other side where I have some minor concerns (more on that later).
The action itself as well as ALL the metal on this thing is currently nasty/gross with crusty cosmo, as well as an oil/sand combination. I wore gloves the entire time I handled it.
Outside of a MASSIVE amount of cosmoline, as well as ‘general storage funk’ it’s in damned good shape. It does NOT appear to be missing any parts which is a nice change from the “C-Grade” SMLE I got before, (which led to this ‘restoration addiction’ I swear)
The biggest issue outside of the funk, is that there’s a pretty significant loss of bluing on the majority of the rifle, which I’m going to go in depth on in a minute…
The rear sight is worn, but present, functional and intact, which is a nice change from the other rifles of this era I’ve seen:
The slider rotates freely, and the sight spring is, believe it or not, pretty tight for an 84 year old rifle… The bolt however, as you can see, has quite a bit of surface rust which is best seem when I dismounted it from the rifle:
Now, the bolt HAD (past tense as you’ll see in these pictures) a lot of surface rust on it. It still functioned and operated nicely with the rifle being as it is/was. The problem is, well, I cleaned it up, and a LOT of the original bluing ‘went away’ due to my cleaning, as seen in these pics. I first tore the bolt down completely to it’s pre-cleaned components:
Stripped down, you can see all the dirt and rust on the pieces/parts. I spent the better pat of an hour with some of the dental picks that Coelacanth sent me digging out encrusted ‘nasty’ from the nooks and crannies, as well as just generally getting “my scrub on” as this thing hadn’t been cleaned since World War 2 as far as I could tell.
Once I got everything clean, I reassembled the bolt, which now looks like this:
Now, this caused another problem
One of which I need y’all’s input.
Let me start off by showing you the Serial Number of the rifle I’m now working on currently:
That’s “B4859”
With a manufacture Year of 1941.
The British Army didn’t start accepting the MK 4 until 1942
Therein lies the problem.
This is one of the earliest pre-acceptance Lee Enfield MK4s made.
“B” indicates the Birmingham Small Arms Company located at Shirley, which was the only factory that was making the first ’round’ (3250 +/- made) of L.E. Mark Fours period. fucking dot. in 1941. The manufactory dates for the ’41 MK-4 ran from June of 1941 until December of 1941, with the serial numbers being started with “A” thru “B” with only a 4 digit S/N. Later variants started with a number, then a letter, and then a five digit S/N.
So this is one of the earliest MK 4 rifles made.
MY Problem:
Check these out:
The Bolt Handle S/N AFTER cleaning:
Yeah.
Matches the ‘wrist’ of the main S/N.
Damn
And then lastly (and possibly most amazingly) the magazine has a Serial Number as well… the Brits were pretty anal about ‘stuff’ like that, so on a Mark 4, the Serial Numbers were on the rifle’s ‘wrist’ (which was the ‘main S/N) and then on the back of the bolt handle, and lastly, on the magazine itself:
Holy Shit on a Shingle
I have a matching serial number early model Lee Enfield Model One, Mark Four.
What are the odds!?!
I mean I have no idea of the actual value, but I personally know that matching three/four or five serial numbers on a classic World War ‘X’ Weapon, no matter the conflict is A) as rare as hen’s toofuses, and B) usually worth a shitpot of money to collectors.
Hence my dilemma.
ORIGINALLY I was going to refurbish this thing to like new, to include a duracoat finish, and make it a great classic daily shooter.
Now?
That might be out the window depending on the interest and if it cleans up and gauges correctly. I know a regular in GREAT shape Mark 4 can sell upwards of $800 dollars. I had no idea that I had pulled a ‘lottery ticket’ level rifle from Royal Tiger. The thing is that the bluing on this thing, that I can tell is utterly fucked and I have NO IDEA if I should reblue it, touch it up, or say “fuck it” and go for broke and DuraCoat it?
SO…………………….. what say you?
Right now, all I’m going to do is clean the fuck out of it, remove all the rust (and whatever finish that comes off with the rust is a “fuck it” cost of doing biddness), and IF I feel like I want to re-blue it/DuraCoat it/Hell, CeraCoat it, I will…
Despite the ‘potential value’…………
I want to most importantly shoot it
LOVE me some .303Brit
Fuck all other issues.
Opinions are welcome, phone lines are manned.
More Later
Big Country
That is a nice find indeed
Thanks Matt
TOTALLY Random”
I had NO IDEA what I was getting, especially in light of the fact that I ordered it before Christmas!!!!
I have ANOTHER One on the way in another few weeks if they keep the same timeframe… one of them is going to go up for a raffle, so stay tuned
The wrist S/N looks to be 4858 and teh bolt and magazine appears to be 4859. Is that what I am seeing?
I placed that picture in a picture editor I have and there appears to be a ghost image above that number and fainly looks like the original number of 4859. One aberation was teh numbers looked jumbled on the wrist and uniform on teh bolt and magazine.
It’s 4859… the “9” is a lil whonky but when I clean it up, it’ll be clear
I had one back in the 80’s – pristine. I still kick myself for selling it.
Far as I know – what you have is a very interesting conversation piece. Unless things have changed I doubt there would be any more or any less interesting it than any other No.4.
Clean it up and shoot it – and if it shoots…then maybe you need to start thinking seriously about collector values.
Study “rust bluing”. To keep your rifle original as possible but at the same time not rusty, boil the metal parts in water for a half hour, then gently card them with 0000 steel wool.
Your 1939 and 1941 rifles should have George VI cyphers.
Are you going to assemble a set of webbing to go with your .303’s? And a 1907 sword bayonet for the smle, and the funky spike for the No.4?
Ditto this^^^. Four aught steel wool with light oil or some rust buster is the best way to preserve as much finnish as possible.
Very nice on the new (old) lil bang bang there. Will make you a nice project, with a satisfying end result I’m sure. I’ve not gotten into restoring antique guns (yet) as in have other hobbies that eat up my limited time and “playtoy” budget. For $ spent on guns, I prefer to buy new(ish) stuff that has practical use in either hunting or self defense. Maybe I’ll have the luxury of expanding on that into antiques someday.
On the weird dreams thing, only thing that ever did that to me were Oxys, taken after hernia surgery when I was 19, and then later on in life after some oral surgery. Tylenol PM never fucked me up – didn’t help me sleep, either – but then I (fortunately) had/have no drug interactions to worry about when taking OTC shit, being I’m not on any meds on an ongoing basis. With what I gather are your pain meds (among other things) all bets are off as to what to fuckery will take place with the pharmaceutical cocktail.
Regarding sleep meds. There are two that are easy to take and have few side effects and are often used in mental institutions (trust me on this one. I worked at one. People on Lithium trying to play basketball is the most evil but funny thing you can imagine that’s legal.)
Firstus is Benadryl. Seriously. Take 4 at bedtime. Not 2. Take 4. Will knock most people on their asses. And your sinuses will dry up. A twofer.
Secundus is Melatonin. Start at 1mg, possibly 2. This is just taking more of what your body already makes. Can’t fall asleep because your brain won’t stop running around doing a combo demolition derby/Le Mans/Gran Prix through all your memories? Melatonin shuts everything down… For the most part.
If that doesn’t work, try the traditional drunkard’s method. A hot toddy. Rum/Brandy, warmed, with orange juice and honey. Also works when you have a cold or other respiratory issue and you’re hacking up a lung of gunk, as it suppresses the cough while loosening up the gunk.
Since I stupidly missed buying milsurp when I had cash, any recommendations as to milsurp restoration is out of my wheelhouse.
Probably the Benadryl that caused your nightmares. It isn’t a big dose so it altered your brainwaves to beta but didn’t dose you fully to sleep. Thus you kept shifting between alpha and beta brainwaves. Thus nightmares.
A large dose such as Mark4 suggested should work without you having the dreams. I would skip Tylenol PM and just go with Benadryl solo. Tylenol is rough on your kidneys and should be saved for dealing with high fevers.
I have read that recurrent melatonin use inhibits the body’s natural creation of it. I don’t know. It works well for some people. I just use Benadryl or bourbon myself.
Regarding that awesome rifle find. Maybe you should look at what kind of prices these things bring before you clean any more. Some collectors prefer the rifle to be in original condition. Because it’s more authentic or something.
Regardless, congrads on a great find. You should be able to reap some profit off it.
was into old English sportscars myself for years. one thing I used to do to every engine block was to “bubble” the hell out of it with electrolysis. remove all the core plugs and everything else I could.
and after 2-3 days of that. the block was looking like brand new.
I have done a lot of smaller bits and things over the years to remove rust and gunk.
and I was given a old 6.5 JFK special a few years ago, so I might try doing that.
and I still have the old battery charger in 24 volts that was used for forklifts I think ?
don’t know about that part, but it worked great at “bubbling “away rust and junk.
as for the old rifle, you already been on the old rifle boards, ask them what it’s worth ?
like can I sell this one and get 2 or more to work on and shoot later kind of thing ?
couple of years ago, there was older guy at the range, he brought a reloading kit with him and he was
trying out loads. now. he had some really old rifles he was playing with at the time. a couple of martini
rifles in 577 I think it was. never saw anything like it. also the first time I saw anyone “compress’ the powder in the round too. whatever. he was having fun doing it. haven’t see him in a while.
guess I have to ask about the old guy at the club the next time I stop in. they have a bar inside and meeting place. but for 7 bucks a year as a old fart, you can’t beat it and use the range any time you want
no extra fees for range time. I like the hills of PA. so, again, it depends on WHAT you want to do with it.
I compress the powder in the reloads for the old blackpowder rifles. It makes the velocities more uniform. It’s so tight after compression that if you want to remove the powder from the case you have to dig it out with a pick.
Matt
didn’t know that part. but then I only reload what I shoot myself and some loads for my firewood guy. he shoots a 7mm Mauser. haven’t messed around with black powder since I was a kid.
a long time ago now. had a cap and ball 1860 I think it was. fun gun to shoot, pain in the butt to reload.
800 dolla don’t worry bout it fix it an choot it choot it shoot it…. $8000 sell it by another and ammo.
Fred in Texas, LEAVE THE PATINA ALONE FOR THE LOVE ALL THAT’S HOLY!!! Seriously, clean it thoroughly, repair what needs to be repaired so that it’s a dependably safe shooter and stick it in the safe as an investment. As far as rust… 0000 steel wool with kroil or another high quality penetrant. Do note this point* “the color of the oil can impact the outcome color.” Think about plum bluing, cosmoline green artifacts etc. If you want to make it look bluish, clean it with some colored oil (2 stroke?) lightly diluted with clear kerosene/off road diesel. Keep the patina, remove the rust and color what porous bluing/rust remains with your oiling/cleaning lubricant. Plum bluing is rust, gun bluing is rust with an extra molecule. Sorry about your 2A restoration addiction. I’ve heard that there’s no recovery and treatment is limited by funds/time/parts. I’m currently working a Mossberg 151 M(b) for therapeutic value. No SN at all on this one. Looking forward to observing the outcome of your project.
I just remember what we used for big items. old tranny fluid. the nasty stuff. worked like a charm at getting old rust and gunk free with a little elbow work. granted that was back in the 1970-80’s so I have no idea if the “new stuff’ works the same way.
but for some weird reason, the nasty shit worked really well on getting old gunk and rust off.
the smell was something you want to use outside for sure. but we did bring back to life some old machine tools with it. wear gloves when using it as it was almost impossible to get it off your hands
but we did soak a few bits in the stuff for a few days and they cleaned up real easy afterwards
a old metal shaper and tooling that we got for scrap price and ended up getting it to work again.
I have a old Atlas 7b shaper now and there are things you can do with it that are almost impossible to do with a mill. kind of weird to see them selling now as back then they where just dumped in the scrap yards. and they use lathe bits for the most part. a whole lot cheaper to buy than milling cutters are.
Clean it, oil it, gauge it, if okay then shoot it. Then research and decide about refinish.
I’m willing to bet that your BSA will shoot better than my Savage-built No. Mk I/II Factory Thorough Repair, which groups mediocre at best. My Remington-Eddystone P14 will embarrass the hell out of it at 100 yards. I am in the middle of restoring a BSA SMLE of 1916 vintage that I bought as a Bubba wreck years ago. It was keyholing at 50 yards, but I found a near-mint barrel from an outfit that used to convert SMLEs to 7.62 X 39, and had it installed. Now I need wood and hardware to bring the old warhorse back. Good luck on your unexpected treasure!
Try here: https://leeenfieldpartsandmilitaria.com/home.php
England
A Lee Enfield ‘depot’ so to speak. It’s where I found the two upper rear portion(s) of the SMLE Handguard. The majority of the ones out there have the ‘ears’ around the sight cut off or shaved down. Mine weren’t and his stock changes up as he finds ‘stuff’. This guy is great. Good communication, fast shipping. Depending on what you’re getting, the prices can be either cray-cray (for new-old-stock) or fair for worn-but-serviceable like I got for my Smelly.
And no vig for me telling you about him unfortunately LOL
There is an amazing sleep medication out there called exercise.
Has a lot of other great benefits as well.
Lol. Don’t see that happening. Been following the guy for a long time and I’ve never heard the word or seen a reference to it here.
Awww Hell I thought it was going to be some blogger douche. We all know Milley is a corrupt lying fucker. No big story there. He needs to swing. Stolen valor is the last thing that dude should be worried about. That’s a big non story for me.
Don’t worry about Milley, he crossed and back stabbed Trump and we all know that Trump is as forgiving as Darth Vader.
I guarantee as BCE alludes that there are people “officially” researching that clown and his misdeeds probably ordered by our new Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth.
BTW how wonderful is it to see the Secretary of Defense out doing PT every morning with the troops ?
The top guy was a Rakkasan, served in Iraq and Afghanistan and isn’t some paper pushing chicken hawk like our last string of Defense Secretaries.
I feel your pain. My bro gave me an old Mauser he found in a shed. Had been leaning against the wall for 30 years. (As an aside, I’m the guy in my family who gets all the “worthless” old guns to resurrect.) He had thoughtfully taken off the rust with a wire wheel. When I finally got around to looking at it closely, I discovered it was a post-war Czech commercial Mauser carbine, with double triggers, built in scope mounts, Monte Carlo cheek piece, and Mannlicher stock. Pics on the web show it to have been a beauty. Told me it was safe to shoot, as he had fired it 3 times. Turns out that was when it was tied to a tree. So, I’m sitting here looking at it. The more I look, the less I’m think it can be it can be brought back to its former glory. Pity, but I have a conversion kit to make it into a .45 ACP carbine. Last resort.